By Situation Theatre 25/11/2019

The Insiders host gave the Greens MP a whipping and the Treasurer some whipped cream. It’s indicative of broader crisis in Australian journalism.

In yesterday’s Guardian, columnist Greg Jericho wrote a piece called Centrism is a Dead Weight in Australian Politics – And It’s Dragging Us All Down. In it, he rightly argued that “so long as powerful journalists believe that arguments are worthy purely because they call for a middle ground, then ever will they be a force that prevents effective action on climate change”.

It’s a sound statement and centrism certainly is a blight upon our politics.

Unfortunately, centrism is not the main problem with discourse in this country. It’s worse than that.

Our discourse is not predominantly centrist, it’s predominantly right-wing.

Let’s make the argument through a detailed case study of Insiders, the most watched political interview programme in this country. This is the main forum, along with Q & A, and 730, in which our Government is supposed to be held to account.

We’ll do so by comparing the questions asked in two consecutive interviews by one of the nation’s most prominent and acclaimed interviewers.

Last week, Fran Kelly interviewed Greens MP Adam Bandt in the context of the national bushfire crisis, which every relevant expert in the country states has been fuelled by climate change. The context is also more than six years of Coalition environmental sabotage and decades of Greens campaigning for climate action.

On Sunday, Fran Kelly interviewed Treasurer Josh Frydenberg in the context of 23 million legal breaches by Westpac in relation to its obligations under anti-money-laundering and counter-terror finance laws. This follows a period in which the Government voted against the Banking Royal Commission 26 times and tried to give the big four banks billions of dollars in tax cuts. The interview also comes as the Australian economy flags and the Government has come under heavy criticism for inaction.

All questions have been labelled as neutral, if they merely seek information or an opinion, loaded, if they attempt to lead the interview subject to denounce a third party, or attack, if the question contains some kind of criticism of the guest or his party.

There is a genuine attempt here to fairly label the questions to come to an accurate picture of where Kelly’s interviews sit on the political spectrum.

Are they halfway between Bandt and Frydenberg, as we would suspect if centrism was the dominant mode of public political discourse?

Or do they slide towards one end or the other?

Q1

Adam Bandt

On that day (the one in which Jordon-Steele John used the phrase “borderline arsonists”) the fire warning had been increased to catastrophic for the first time in this country. Do you accept that that kind of language, on that day is not only insensitive, but is out of line?

ATTACK

“Do you accept that that kind of language, on that day, is not only insensitive, but is out of line?”@frankelly08 questions the Greens’ @AdamBandt about @Jordonsteele’s comments where he labelled the government “no better than a bunch of arsonists”.#Insiders #auspol pic.twitter.com/Hw9ojCGUlF
— Insiders ABC (@InsidersABC) November 16, 2019

Josh Frydenberg

The Prime Minister has said the Westpac board must be accountable for this breach. What does accountability look like?

NEUTRAL

Q2

Adam Bandt

While people were fighting fires, fighting for their lives, fighting for their homes, fighting for their communities. And to have a politician standing up and use their tragedy and their trauma to score a political point. They didn’t like it, do you accept that?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Given those findings, you say the board will have to take some action. If the CEO of Westpac and even the chair of Westpac are still in place in six months’ time, would you be happy with that?

NEUTRAL

Q3

Adam Bandt

You started it. It was you on Sunday who accused the Prime Minister of putting towns and lives at risk. You don’t regret those comments?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

So, you would expect this to trigger those BAR responsibilities, some kind of disqualification of executives, would you expect that?

NEUTRAL

Q4

Adam Bandt

Do you think people are look on and going, where do The Greens draw the line in exploiting a human tragedy to score a political point?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

You’re the Treasurer, you introduced those powers, you’re also responsible for the banks. The Prime Minister has said this incident has damaged people’s confidence in our banking system. As treasurer, what action do you want to see?

NEUTRAL

Q5

Adam Bandt

The words you were using. It’s hyperbole isn’t it? I mean you said Scott Morrison has not got the climate crisis under control. The Australian Prime Minister can’t get the climate crisis under control.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

What do you want to see, does there need to be more?

NEUTRAL

Q6

Adam Bandt

Talking about pulling levers, I mean it was The Greens back in 2009 who didn’t pull the lever to give Australia an emissions trading scheme. Kevin Rudd’s CPRS, it was The Greens who used their votes to defeat that. We could have had an emissions trading scheme and a price on carbon for ten years. We could have been well along that track. You can’t have it both ways to use your words.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Have you spoken to the CEO and the Chair yet of Westpac? And what did you tell them?

“I made very clear the seriousness of these issues.”

Treasurer @JoshFrydenberg says he has spoken to the Chair and CEO of #Westpac. #Insiders #auspol pic.twitter.com/LNxcKT0Rdj
— Insiders ABC (@InsidersABC) November 23, 2019

NEUTRAL

Q7

Adam Bandt

Well there’d been plenty of amendments, there’d been plenty of conversation, when it came to a vote, The Greens said nah, nothing is better than something.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

I know it’s difficult for you, but I am going to ask you one more time, what do you think, should these people keep their jobs?

EMPATHY PREFACE, NEUTRAL

Q8

Adam Bandt

Maybe, maybe, but maybe we could have had a scheme in for ten years.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Do the stakes need to be raised even higher? Westpac will have to pay, the fines will be considerable, in the billions, almost definitely, which handily for you will go to your bottom line. But it is a big bank. It will be able to afford that? Should jail sentences, should criminal charges be introduced for individuals as Allan Fels was suggesting?

LOADED QUESTION AGAINST THE BANKS

Q9

Adam Bandt

Will the Greens accept the advice from these experts around for instance, the levels of hazard-burning, if that means, they suggest, more back-burning, more clearing in national parks? Because this is a criticism that’s been handed to The Greens all week. That Greens and environmentalists have been getting in the way of hazard-burning.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

So, APRA can do more than just disqualify executives?

NEUTRAL

Q10

Adam Bandt

Getting out of coal in 10 years is just fanciful isn’t it? It’s worth $70 billion dollars to our economy.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

The sheer dimension of the breaches is one thing, as you said, 23 million breaches worth 11 billion dollars. But it really is much worse than that. Westpac were aware of the risks that some of these overseas payments could be abused, by paedophiles in the Philippines, they were made aware of that. It seems they didn’t care enough to fix a breach when it occurred. What does that say about attitudes in the banking sector towards anything but profits, is that the problem here?

LOADED QUESTION AGAINST THE BANKS

Q11

Adam Bandt

If you did that (got out of coal in 10 years), you would decimate some of those communities. You would put a huge chunk of a hole in the economy.

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Are you worried that this kind of failure for these kind of sex trafficking crimes and paedophilic crimes could be slipping through any other banks? Are you going to take any steps to make sure the banks take another look at this?

LOADED AGAINST THE BANKS

Q12

Adam Bandt

In 10 years, make that transition (to renewables) without a huge knock to the economy in 10 years?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Do you think Australians will be happy if at the end of this, as I say in six months’ time or twelve months’ time, no one’s lost their job over this?

LOADED AGAINST THE BANKS

Q13

Adam Bandt

Why don’t you support the only policy (National Energy Guarantee) that’s even vaguely near the table at the moment?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Treasurer, let’s go to the economy more broadly. Is the announcement this week of $3.8 billion dollars of infrastructure being brought forward an admission that the economy has stalled and it needs some stimulus from the Government?

ATTACK

Q14

Adam Bandt

If you joined that Coalition of voices (for the National Energy Guarantee), don’t you think there’d be the votes in the Parliament for a start, for the Government to get it through, they would know that, why not add your voice to it?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

Then why are we bothering putting out $3.8 billion dollars?

ATTACK

Q15

Adam Bandt

So would you support the NEG if it could get to the table?

NEUTRAL

Josh Frydenberg

You’ve only brought them forward because as you say the economy continues to grow, but it’s pretty sluggish growth. What was it? The slowest growth in GDP in a decade at 1.4%. Pretty slow. Unemployment went up this month. Employment had the biggest monthly fall in three years. Retail sales fell. We haven’t had retail sales this bad since 1990. Things aren’t good.

ATTACK

Q16

Adam Bandt

Do you support the direct election of a Greens leader by the membership?

NEUTRAL

Josh Frydenberg

Do you accept though that households don’t have faith in the economy, because if they did, they would have splashed their tax cuts, not banked them, not paid down debt?

ATTACK

Q17

Adam Bandt

You’ve been trying to do it (make a decision about direct election) for a few years now, what’s the hold up?

ATTACK

Josh Frydenberg

I’m asking you do you accept that that’s a reflection that people don’t have much faith in the economy?

ATTACK

Q18

Adam Bandt

If it came down the side of full membership election, would you support that?

NEUTRAL

Josh Frydenberg

Retail sales are at their lowest point since 1990. Have the Reserve Bank cuts in interest rates backfired? Have they damaged consumer confidence?

NEUTRAL

Q19

Josh Frydenberg

In terms of the rate cuts, economists are starting to factor in a further rate cut. Would that help? Is that a good idea?

NEUTRAL

Q20

Josh Frydenberg

In terms of stimulus, we’ve had the $3.8 billion dollars. There’s been plenty of people calling for you to bring forward the next tranche of tax cuts, which you’re resisting, but you’ve left the door open. When will you decide, what’s going to make up your mind on whether you do bring that forward or not?

NEUTRAL

Q21

Josh Frydenberg

What sort of numbers will you be looking forward to suggest to you and Mathias Cormann that you better bring these (tax cuts) forward?

NEUTRAL

Q22

Josh Frydenberg

The Labor Party is gone, that was last election, they’re gone (the supposed 387 billion of higher taxes), that’s not coming in anyway, that’s not even their policies anymore. Why are you still talking about Labor?

ATTACK

Q23

Josh Frydenberg

Is the Government still committed to lifting the Superannuation Guarantee to 12% by 2025. Is that still a guarantee?

NEUTRAL

Q24

Josh Frydenberg

So you’re committed to that? You think that’s the best plan?

NEUTRAL

Q25

Josh Frydenberg

There’s 175,000 people over the age of 55 on Newstart, they don’t have the jobs, they’re looking for jobs, they’re not there.

ATTACK

Q26

Josh Frydenberg

And how many people have they (programmes to take on people on income support) taken on?

ATTACK

Q27

Josh Frydenberg

Finally, do you back the calls from some of your colleagues for a former Chinese spy to be granted asylum in Australia?

NEUTRAL

In summary, Fran’s interview with Adam Bandt started with 14 attacks on him and The Greens with or without question mark at the end of them. Frydenberg’s interview started with seven neutral questions, followed by four loaded questions against the banks and another neutral one, before she got to her 13th and 14th questions, which could be interpreted as attacks on the Government.

In total, Bandt faced 15 attacks and three neutral questions.

In total, the Treasurer faced 15 neutral questions, 4 loaded questions against the banks, and 8 attacks.

Insiders is the flagship political interview programme on our national broadcaster.

One week it repeatedly attacks a minor opposition party using Government talking points. The next it asks a serious of neutral questions which provide a national platform for the Government to yet again express their talking points.

Something is drastically wrong with journalism in this country.

If we want truth in journalism, we are going to need to pay for it.

Please consider funding our efforts to counter centrist and right-wing propaganda by becoming a Situation Theatre patron today.